Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

News and announcements regarding Anima Beyond Fantasy RPG books.
RegnierLoT
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Registrado: 14 Ene 2017 20:37

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por RegnierLoT » 16 Nov 2017 11:18

pulpcitizen escribió:I am not the only one making these observations about lack of communication, as others have done so privately and publicly (look at the original KS campaign for evidence of the latter). That you are happy with the status quo is great, but not everyone feels the same, similarly I do not assume everyone is frustrated by the lack of communication.

The time issue is something Carlos has chosen to do as he has pursued an more ambitious pack of content than originally planned. So why not say that in a brief post sometime sooner in the past 6 months?

Having co-run two Kickstarters I can unequivocally say that in fact it is a simple matter to do that, to live by KS's own rules and terms of use requiring honest communication, especially as Carlos said this in June 2016:
We want to keep everyone informed about the development of the rewards. In the next fifteen days we will have finished the Perfect World Guide. Meanwhile, we will go on working on the physical rewards, and we hope that they will be ready to send in less than two months.
RANT INCOMING

I full-on agree with you. This is not the way to do a campaign, six months of silence does not help anyone.

In fact, it gives the impression of an abandoned project, which is what I thought it was happening. Since I started playing Anima, I have found odd that Carlos/Anima Project works on so many fronts with so little resources (at first glance, the team of Anima Project has always been small). At first, it was the RPG line, the miniature line and the cards line.

Now, they seem to be working on: Nameless DLC, the publisher thing, new books, new miniatures, Luminous Echo and the Christmas Fan Constest.

I really think that Anima Project should really center itself on fullfiling schedules and promises, instead of expanding and expanding with more work that, at the end, pushes everything further down the line. The expansion of the Nameless DLC is all right, but I must admit that I'm not waiting for it, but for new books for the RPG line.

It's already bad that the only real book that furthers the RPG line is a Kickstarter exclusive which most people don't have access to, but now I feel that those that only care about the RPG line (after all, most people that I personally know found Gate of Memories to be a bad game and we're more excited for the PWG that the game itself) have to wait more and more because Anima Project take decisions without care.
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lizvne
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Registrado: 23 Dic 2016 20:00

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por lizvne » 18 Nov 2017 01:26

RegnierLoT escribió:found Gate of Memories to be a bad game
I'm pretty surprised when I hear things like that. In my personal experience GoM was really the Game of the Year, with only disadvantages being kind of short and with rather strange voice acting both disadvantages easily forgiven considering it is an indie game. Considering God of War series as we knew is dead now (new GoW promises to be new game exploiting the old franchise) and everyone just making Souls clones when they aim at 3person action genre..
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SlayerRequiem
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Registrado: 19 Ene 2017 10:57

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por SlayerRequiem » 18 Nov 2017 22:38

Luminous Echo isn't Carlos's project or an Anima Studios project as far as I know. The closest connection is Wen, who is a private artist and can sell his services to whomever he pleases.

Here's the thing, he isn't ignoring his promises, but he isn't the best at estimating time, he isn't a professional video game creator, and when he wants to improve something it sometimes takes time. He isn't just making a product for the KS, he is making it sell to the public as well. I am sure that at the time it was honestly what he thought was going to happen, so it's not like he's breaking any rules or guidelines. Trust me, I've put a lot myself into this project, so I'd know.

Complaining about things when realistically, he is a person, who isn't that confident in English, so he tries not to send messages that could come off wrong (I am sure no one here has anxiety over things like speaking to a large audience though, right?) So, he wants to make sure when he announces something, he has something to say. Let's be real here, if you really know the studio, then you know that sometimes they get caught up in the big flashy picture, but isn't that the point? Isn't Anima a game of dark stories with big flashy amazing combat, and storyline?

So, if it takes a bit of silence if it takes more time to get the bigger flashier end, then what? Do I get a better product in the end? Darn.

As for disliking the game, well that's on you I suppose. I loved the game, my friends loved the game. I've recommended it and received positive responses all around. So, I dunno? Maybe those friends just don't like the game's style.

As far as the RPG goes...have you ever tried to find a publisher for a massive book like the Anima books? One that you know, has to take both the burden of translation (as let's be honest, we know it's not going to be Anima Studios doing that) and then publishing it in other languages? Carlos has books in backlog, to be released meanwhile having his own life to live. Anima is likely not his primary job, and thus he has to fit it in with other work. (Not sure about the last bit either.) So, there may be no news to give, and as I said, if there is nothing to say, he tends to not say anything in my experience.

The thing that insults me the most is that you say they don't care.

You know absolutely nothing about this game or the studio behind it if you think that.
pulpcitizen
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Registrado: 04 Ene 2017 22:45

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por pulpcitizen » 19 Nov 2017 16:16

SlayerRequiem escribió:...
So, if it takes a bit of silence if it takes more time to get the bigger flashier end, then what? Do I get a better product in the end? Darn.
...
Six months of silence did not get things done any quicker - let us be 100% honest and clear on that. The time required to post updates is not days, weeks of months of work - it is minutes or hours at most, and certainly not six months.

The thing is, per KS rules and and terms of use, Carlos DOES have an obligation to communicate with backers (most easily done via updates), even if he is uncomfortable in doing so:
Kickstarter rules escribió:Projects can’t mislead people or misrepresent facts, and creators should be candid about what they plan to accomplish.
This would include extending content which in turn extended the delivery window.
Kickstarter Creator Handbook escribió:Backers appreciate regular, insightful, and honest updates. Don’t be hesitant to communicate delays or changes to your original plans — or to just check in. (If backers don’t hear from you for a while, they worry that you may be having trouble doing the work you promised.)
Running late is not a problem, and Kickstarter encourages creators to keep backers informed.
Kickstarter Terms of Use escribió:Throughout the process, creators owe their backers a high standard of effort, honest communication, and a dedication to bringing the project to life.
Again, that emphasis on communication.
Kickstarter Terms of Use escribió:At the same time, backers must understand that when they back a project, they’re helping to create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There may be changes or delays, and there’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised.
What he above says is that we as backers should be understanding of delays - which is predicated on being kept informed (the above paragraph directly follows the previous quote).
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lizvne
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Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por lizvne » 19 Nov 2017 19:17

SlayerRequiem escribió:Luminous Echo isn't Carlos's project or an Anima Studios project as far as I know. The closest connection is Wen, who is a private artist and can sell his services to whomever he pleases.
Slight correction, Carlos will participate in this project, doing Anima charsheets for the NPCs presented. Which I find to be ok as well, as I hope to get new content (like CP advantages, modules, Arsm Magnus, etc) even in such "indirect" way.
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pulpcitizen
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Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por pulpcitizen » 19 Nov 2017 19:57

SlayerRequiem escribió:...
So, if it takes a bit of silence if it takes more time to get the bigger flashier end, then what? Do I get a better product in the end? Darn.
...
And of course, as a further point, while Carlos was being silent and not yet delivering physical rewards to backers, the 'Anima: Gate of Memories Beyond Fantasy Edition' deluxe edition has been released, including some physical rewards that backers are still waiting for (several months after the release of the Beyond Fantasy Edition), and also including a tarot deck which will have taken a 'darn' amount of time more to design and produce than a few written updates for the KS campaign.
SlayerRequiem
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Registrado: 19 Ene 2017 10:57

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por SlayerRequiem » 19 Nov 2017 20:49

So, let me ask you this: Where does Kickstarter give a timeline requirement for how often to communicate? Because there are updates, but it doesn't have a requirement for how often. So, that whole 'TOS' and Guidelines arguement is just thrown out. If you want to complain endlessly, fine. There no point to arguing. If you note, he did mention all the things I did, its not like I pulled the information from either like a magician.

Carlos has stated that the DLC is required for the physical rewards to be complete. That is the hold-up, and a hold up that doesn't affect the BFE because it doesn't have it. In the end, you just want to kick your feet, fine. I don't know what you 'want' but the best thing it will do is nothing, and the worst thing it will do, makes things worse. What an obvious point, I know. It's like the world doesn't revolve around imaginary rules or something.

It's people holding things like a pendulum that drive me up the wall. Do you think the Sword of Damocles is shiny? let it hang over your own head for a while.

Also, taking part in a project isn't the same as running it, which was the point. Its not hard to create some content for something, compared to running a whole project.
pulpcitizen
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Registrado: 04 Ene 2017 22:45

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por pulpcitizen » 20 Nov 2017 08:43

SlayerRequiem escribió:So, let me ask you this: Where does Kickstarter give a timeline requirement for how often to communicate? Because there are updates, but it doesn't have a requirement for how often. So, that whole 'TOS' and Guidelines arguement is just thrown out. If you want to complain endlessly, fine. There no point to arguing. If you note, he did mention all the things I did, its not like I pulled the information from either like a magician.
KS does not give a timeline, but read back to those KS quotes and what KS itself says about saying nothing - which is what Carlos did for 6 months, which is in the window way beyond his promised delivery month from the July 2016 update (indicating August/September 2016 delivery). In December 2016, Carlos stated physical rewards would be ready 'very soon', yet still that silence from May 2017 to November 2017.

The Nameless campaign was due to be finished within 3 weeks of the May 2017 update, then would be tested; in May 2017 we were told we would be shown the other physical rewards in the next update. That did not happen - essentially all Carlos has shown so far is the minis a couple of times.

If you take your defence of six months of silence to the extreme, then that would say it is okay to never publish an update as no timeline is given - yet in fact KS clearly states that creators should keep backers regularly updated.

Carlos stated in July 2016 that physical rewards would be delivered two months later. Don't believe me, read the July 2016 update again: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13 ... ts/1617148

He then created the deluxe Beyond Fantasy Edition.

You previously stated that he wasn't making updates as he was committing all of that time to delivery - I have pointed out that an update does not require much time in real terms and he has been producing other product while missing by over a year his stated August/September 2016 update delivery window.
Carlos has stated that the DLC is required for the physical rewards to be complete. That is the hold-up, and a hold up that doesn't affect the BFE because it doesn't have it. In the end, you just want to kick your feet, fine. I don't know what you 'want' but the best thing it will do is nothing, and the worst thing it will do, makes things worse. What an obvious point, I know. It's like the world doesn't revolve around imaginary rules or something.
But the BFE was not part of this - that is yet another thing Carlos decided to pursue and create while this project remained undelivered.

By your logic across your posts, producing the tarot deck took no time, yet producing updates takes months of work?

As for what I want - that is for Carlos to follow the ethos of KS's rules and terms of use and produce updates while delays continue. Not a lone update following six months of silence.
It's people holding things like a pendulum that drive me up the wall. Do you think the Sword of Damocles is shiny? let it hang over your own head for a while.
This project has been hanging over backers for more than a while - it has been hanging for four years and counting.....
Also, taking part in a project isn't the same as running it, which was the point. Its not hard to create some content for something, compared to running a whole project.
You may have skimmed over my previous comments where I mentioned I have co-run two previous KS campaigns with a combined funding value comparable to the two GoM campaigns in total, and we provided weekly updates, even when there were delays. I am speaking from a position of insight. Delays are not the problem, silence is.

Delays are not something I have a problem with, not communicating with backers, per KS' own rules and ToU is something I have a problem with.
Stalkersan90
Mensajes: 10
Registrado: 20 Feb 2017 04:35

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por Stalkersan90 » 20 Nov 2017 20:24

Like to point out regardless of how comparable those claimed campaigns are, doesn't mean you had any of the same delays. Not going to defend the lack of communication on Project Anima, but as he has stated time an time again things got a lot bigger than they anticipated. When it finally gets delivered all I can say is im sure its worth the wait. Otherwise the flip side is it would have never existed in the first place.

Even with these delays, if their were to be future Anima kickstarter things, I would still back them, cause I still am and probably will always be a supporter of Anima.
SlayerRequiem
Mensajes: 39
Registrado: 19 Ene 2017 10:57

Re: Can we get an Update on the Publisher thing?

Mensaje por SlayerRequiem » 22 Nov 2017 05:55

Whoo. False equivalence, my favorite meal of the day.

Also, the PS4 edition was always talked about, but it wasn't confirmed until later in the campaign, it was all based on funding, so yes, it was, in fact, a part of the KS.

Have fun in the void.
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